With reports of falling enrollment in public schools, changes to federal student aid and the dismantling of the US Department of Education, what do people need to pay attention to in today’s education landscape?
Matt Barnum, editor and columnist for Chalkbeat Ideas and Jason Gonzales, Higher Ed and Legislative Matters Reporter for Chalkbeat Colorado join us to discuss these topics and more.
Full Transcript:
Linda O’Bryon: Not only does education play a role in economic growth, America's colleges and universities make vital contributions to the overall economy. And costs connected with education on all levels shape future decisions about education by families, educators, and universities. Hello, I'm Linda O'Bryon.
Nicole Cox: And I'm Nicole Cox. You're listening to Navigating Our Financial Times. With declining birth rates and increased competition from school choice, enrollment at public schools is falling, leaving some to ask how to improve the perception of public education to gain more support, and how will these changes affect K through 12 education?
LO: And with the changes to the Free Application for Federal Student Aid known as FAFSA and college loans, what does this mean for people working toward a college degree? Joining us for this conversation on education are Matt Barnum, editor and columnist for Chalkbeat Ideas, who also covered K through 12 education for the Wall Street Journal, and Jason Gonzalez, higher education and legislative matters reporter for Chalkbeat Colorado. Thank you both for joining us today.
Matt Barnum: Thanks for having us.
Jason Gonzalez: Yeah, thank you.
NC: Matt, in a recent article you wrote for the Wall Street Journal, you cited Arizona at the epicenter at school choice. With public schools battling an existential crisis, could you give some background on Arizona's experience with school choice and what this means for public education, as well as alternatives such as charter schools?
MB: Arizona has long been at what I think both supporters and critiques would say is that the vanguard of school choice. They have expanded publicly funded alternatives to traditional public schools and neighborhood public schools. And those include charter schools that are privately run but publicly funded and approved by the government and then private schools that you know are private but get government funding. Arizona has also recently enacted an ESA (Empowerment Scholarship Account) program for private schools but also home-schooling families. So, there are more schooling option in Arizona. At the same time, there are fewer children. And that’s a math problem for traditional public schools. They are really feeling the pressure to get more students, but that is really hard with students sticking around as I said more options.
LO: It is a math problem. Matt, in your article, you mentioned the superintendent with the Scottsdale Unified School District, Dr. Scott Menzel, who encourages his staff to read a book on the restaurant industry and lessons learned for customer service. Can you explain what he hopes the takeaway will be?
MB: He hopes, as I understand him, that public schools and their educators and people who work there see students and families as customers. And, in a competitive market, you need to make your customer happy and provide good customer service. Public schools in Arizona and elsewhere are in a competitive market, and they are competing for customers. So, Menzel and other superintendents I talk to are saying look your job as teachers is not just to teach math and reading. It’s also to provide good customer service. It’s to respond to emails from parents right away. I think there can also be negative pressures of that customer service. What happens when a parent is angry about a low grade? Is it bad customer service to say, “well your kid got an F”? So it raises these questions but it just reminds us that, you know, public schools are in a competitive marketplace.
LO: And how long has he been implementing this policy, or approach? MB: I think it was somewhat recent, though I’m actually not 100% sure how he’s been doing that particular thing. Certainly schools in Arizona, it’s not entirely new to them to be in a competitive marketplace. I think the pressure on them has gone up with the ESA program and the declining birthrates.
NC: Can you go over what kind of impact declining enrollment in K through 12 public schools will have?
MB: Well, one, it might ultimately mean closing schools. You know, you set up a school system for a certain number of kids. Imagine you have a thousand students and you set up two schools, because each can support 500. But what happens when that dwindles down to 750 kids? To 600 kids? Can you support both those schools? That's a hard thing to want to support. But closing schools is also really hard. I also think on the other side, there's an opportunity for public schools. One, you can think of an opportunity to close less effective schools. Two, the financial picture is a little complicated. It's not all bad. When you have fewer children, that means the total cost of running a public school system is going down because you have to serve fewer people. So there's an opportunity to actually increase investment in the kids that are still in school.
NC: Well, that's a very interesting way to look at it for sure. Just like when a company maybe has to reorganize, right? Or they review what's working and what's not working. But closing schools isn't necessarily always the first choice, right? There might be cutbacks, whether it comes to the electives schools offer or maybe extracurriculars or increased fees. What about that?
MB: That's a great point. And closing schools is usually the last option. So when you have very small and smaller schools dwindling enrollment, you sometimes can't, you don't have the economies of scale to support special programs. A nurse, an arts class, an after school club. You maybe could do that when your school had 800 kids, but not when you had 600 kids because, money, you've got a certain amount of money per student. And as those students go down, you're generally losing money. So schools often face cutbacks when they become smaller and smaller.
LO: School districts are already having to make difficult decisions due to budget shortfalls and declining enrollment. AZPM's Noor Haghighi reported on the four elementary schools in the Amphitheater School District that were recommended for closure and consolidation by the start of next school year in 2026. Let's hear part of that report:
Superintendent Todd Jaeger has formally recommended the closure of Donaldson, Copper Creek, Nash and Holloway Elementary Schools, which are to be consolidated by the start of next school year into six existing district schools. In an email to Amphi community members, Jaeger says the district’s reduced class sizes will be maintained, and that the one-to-one ratio of laptops-to-students will remain. Full-day kindergarten will also remain free district-wide. Link to Story
NC: In point, is what you were saying, Matt. This is a serious consideration for schools to weigh, for sure, when making these decisions when it comes to declining enrollment and also budget shortfalls. Jason Gonzalez with Chalkbeat, Colorado. What are some of the trends in K through 12 schools? What do they mean for students as they work toward gaining entrance to college?
JG: I think the biggest one that we’re looking at right now is the projected K-12 enrollment declines. We're already seeing universities looking at that math. They're trying to be more competitive and recruiting students based on these projections. So that's not to say that your students shouldn't continue to go look at those highly selected colleges, get really good grades, look at extracurriculars, do other activities outside of the school. But schools are trying to be more encompassing of what the reality of schools look like right now and what students’ experience is. So they're looking at, do students work? Are they doing something that's not on the school campus? And they're trying to look at that fit and say that, you know, can we bring in these students? Can we really recruit these students? And how do we consider in the application process how these students could be on campus? You know, I think the big thing when we're looking at just overall costs nationwide, students should look at fit, families should look at fit. It's really expensive to go to college. Is that college campus for those students? Is that the experience that they want? And do the finances make sense? Is an Ivy League even worth shooting for? Are you going to get a better experience at a community college or a state school or flagship? So these are all considerations in mind as schools, college campuses really look at trying to recruit these students and as students have less opportunities sometimes in schools.
NC: I think that's actually a really great point to bring up. If people are concerned there are fewer opportunities through the schools versus electives, extracurricular activities, you're saying that some of the universities are taking that into consideration when they look at a well-rounded student profile and looking for maybe things that are available for the people to do outside—the kids, to do outside of school.
JG: Yeah I mean, I think there are a lot of students out there who, you know what, they have to work. That's their financial situation, that they have to really support family or support themselves, or to pay for a car to get to school. So schools, college campuses or college leaders are saying, you know what, that's leadership right there. That's taking care of your family. So how do we really bring you in? It's not every school at this point, but a lot of them are really thinking about that.
LO: On that line, do they also look at whether it's a public school or a charter or private school? Does that weigh into those decisions?
JG: Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily on their radar. They are looking at the student and what the student is bringing to the table. And of course, you know, there are test grades and GPA, but when it comes to school type, I don't think that's as much of a concern.
LO: Matt, with schools taking more of a marketing approach, that we talked about earlier to boost enrollment, what are some of the pluses and minuses of this strategy if pursued by public schools especially?
MB: I think the plus is that it could pressure public schools to be better. It could pressure them to up their game, to provide better customer service, as we've talked about. I’ve also talked to leaders who are a school principal who is doing tours of their school weekly, or even twice a week. And it gives her an opportunity to just connect with parents, to prospective parents. It makes her think about, you know, how do I put my school's best foot forward? On the other hand, it costs time and money to market. Schools' marketing budgets have likely grown. It's still a very small piece of the total pie. But that's money that is not going to educate kids. It's time that a principal is spending doing tours where they're not saying, say, in classrooms, giving feedback to teachers. And then, there could be forms of competition that are not educationally beneficial. So I think an example that I raised earlier was grades and grade inflation. A school that is a really tough grader, say a high school that really grades kids, you know, toughly, that's not a great marketing campaign. That is not appealing for high school students who want to get into a good college, even if that might ultimately be educationally beneficial in the longer term in certain ways.
LO: Right, and what does the data show on student performance at alternative schools versus public schools?
MB: Yeah, so a very complicated question. We can say nationally, there is some evidence that charter schools outperform traditional public schools on standardized test scores, though that difference is quite small. When it comes to private schools or private school vouchers, the evidence suggests that students do not do any better and may even do worse on standardized tests when they use a voucher to attend a private school. On the other hand, there's some evidence that the effects, the longer term effects of attending a private school with a voucher are neutral or even somewhat positive when it comes to high school graduation or college attendance. And then focusing specifically on Arizona, there's some evidence that Arizona's charter schools outperform traditional public schools in reading, but not math. And then the ESA program or the voucher-like program in Arizona, we just don't know. And it was not designed in a way that will make it likely that we'll ever know, certainly not in terms of student learning or standardized test scores, because the state doesn't require students who use an ESA or a voucher to take a standardized test. So there's no real point of, there's no way to compare them to the public schools.
LO: The onus will be on parents to determine the best schools in their area. What kind of impact will that have or could that have nationwide on universal public education?
MB: I think it could lead to, and it will lead to the further splintering in some sense of what types of schools families attend. This is not new in the sense, you know, we've always had private schools. We've never had truly universal public education in the sense that every child goes to public schools. We've long had homeschooling. But this just means that the government is supporting or subsidizing alternatives and is not sort of intentionally trying to direct families into the public school, the traditional public school, the neighborhood public school. And obviously, some peop le think that's a good thing, that it opens up choice. They would also note that public schools are often segregated or stratified. And so the idea of it as a universal or great equalizer hasn't always been the case. And on the other hand, you know, critics of this approach would say that we've given up on the idea of universal public education and public schools as the equalizer as putting different types of students together.
NC: The One Big Beautiful Bill, signed in 2025, brought some changes to federal student aid. LO: With student debt totaling $1.8 trillion in the US, second only to home mortgage debt, this affects more than 42 million Americans. Jason, before we go into the details of some of the changes, can you describe more about the scope of the issue when it comes to student debt?
JG: Yeah, to really understand the scope, I think we have to do a little bit of a brief history here. And so we've seen this number consistently grow since the 90s. So from 1990 to 95, we saw an increase in student loan debt from $24 billion to $41 billion. And so that total debt for former students also increased during that time. And this really coincides with economic downturns and state investment in college and universities. When states spend less, they put more on families. Tuition prices go up because there's less state available money for those colleges, public colleges and universities. The Great Recession, for instance, was really tough for states and tuition prices shot up after. I mean, and you look at where we were at 15 years ago, as prices continued to grow, we were at $772 billion. Now we're at that $1.8 trillion mark. So it's really increased pressure on graduates to pay those loans back. And there's a lot of families and students out there struggling with this.
NC: Going even further back in history in 1958, the National Defense Education Act (NDEA) was passed in response to the space race and reportedly became one of the most successful legislative initiatives in higher education. Can you tell us about the background of the federal student loan program and a little bit about the clause for loan forgiveness? Honestly, just a side note, so much, so much happened during the space race. I just find that fascinating. So it was great to find out this piece of information.
JG: Yeah, so we can really thank Russians for student loans for better and worse. The launch of Sputnik caused lawmakers at the time to want to find ways to boost our space race competitiveness. So they created these low-cost student loans, subsidized by the federal government. And the aim was to train more students into those math, science, engineering fields. And you can see the effect. And you can look at how many Americans since then have been able to attain a college degree because they have had these student loans available to them. And the government at the time also put into effect a clause that would essentially forgive for certain fields: teachers, soldiers could get forgiveness. So that's been baked into this student loan system since the onset.
LO: Jason or Matt, chalkbeat.org, your organization, reported in November on the continued efforts by the Trump administration that are accelerating the dismantling of the US Education Department. This includes moving the management of K through 12 and higher education to other agencies such as the Department of Labor. Why the Department of Labor, and what kind of impact will this have?
JG: I can take that. You know, they have said the Department of Labor because they see education as a workforce development program. And they argue that putting some education programs under labor would put all the workforce development programs under one agency. And they say that would streamline matters. There are a lot of folks who are not so sure that's going to be streamlining things, especially because they're moving other parts of the department elsewhere. And I think what is really why they're doing this is not just about the efficiency of the Education Department versus the Labor Department, but because the Education Department for conservatives has come to be a stand-in for their dissatisfaction with public schools and universities. And they have, they and their voters have a lot of anger and frustration at educational institutions, including the Education Department. What the impact will be remains very much an open question. They have said that they are maintaining the programs, even as they move them elsewhere. So in one sense, the impact would seem to be kind of small. You're just moving different programs around within the federal government. It's almost like a boring bureaucracy story. But I think it's gotten a lot of attention because it's symbolic. It is pushing the legal envelope. Critics say they don't have the authority to do this. And it's making education an increasingly salient political issue for voters.
LO: Well, as this evolves, what sort of resource is the Education Department expected to be at this point?
JG: They don't want it to exist, ultimately. And it depends on the particular program. And we will see how that plays out. If the program in question has been moved or is being moved, it's not going to be much of a resource. Not all programs have been moved, at least as yet. So it does exist in some sense. They also say the Education Department still retains statutory authority. They're still an education secretary. So I think we sort of don't know exactly how it's all going to shake out.
NC: So if I'm apprehensive about going online and going to ed.gov, where can I go? Where can I go to find out more information? Jason, I think you said you had a website you found?
JG: If you're looking specifically for FAFSA resources, if you're wondering what's going on right now during all of this, I highly recommend talking to a college or high school counselor in your state. There are also other sites in your state: collegereadyaz.com should have information on financial aid and really be able to guide families through that. But there, you know, in terms of information out there, I’d say stay tuned to the news.
LO: And speaking of the news, Jason, it was announced during the first week of October that the Education Department was resuming student loan forgiveness for borrowers on income-based repayment. But then, of course, we experienced that record-breaking U.S. government shutdown, and then the additional announcements of DOE duties being moved to other agencies. Where are we now, and what are the plans to resume processing loan forgiveness?
JG: To be clear, this is a program where federal student loans can be forgiven after 10 years of both qualifying employment and qualifying monthly payments. With the DOE shift, I mean, there's still a lot of questions, like Matt said, but that student loan system should remain in place right now. And public service loan forgiveness has restarted. They want to keep that going. But I've heard from borrowers and just from folks that I've talked to that there are problems getting certain payments recognized, and that they're having just generally issues to getting that total PSLF finished out. So right now, it still has some problems and some kinks.
NC: Before the government shutdown on October 1st, the Department of Education had a backlog of more than 27,000 complaints after it lost almost two-thirds of its staff. The Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) is open and on time this year. What kind of significant changes are there to the 26-27 FAFSA form?
JG: So we have not been able to get so far from the FAFSA is just information on how many students are filling out the FAFSA and have completed it because of the government shutdown. There are just a lot data pieces that we really don't know right now. But the FAFSA did get a huge revamp in 2023 and it is easier to fill out. It's faster to fill out. And the federal government says this year there should be a faster verification process. They've restored a rule that concerned farmers, or people who own farmland, to ensure that's not counted as an asset. That really was playing into how much some students could get for college. But generally speaking, there's not an incredible amount new this year with the FAFSA. They are just trying to keep the process moving forward that was started in 2023.
LO: And there are more changes on the way for repayment and loan forgiveness programs. Can you give us an overview of one or two of the key dates borrowers need to pay attention to?
JG: Yeah, the key date right now is July 2026. And there are some rule-making around repayment and loan forgiveness programs that lawmakers have to hash out. But what we're going to see is, possibly see is, change the caps on how much students can borrow. That would be around that same time. Repayment plans are unchanged right now, but there could be new restrictions. And PSLF, which we talked about, changes will also go into effect that year for what qualifies as an employer.
LO: So to be determined.
JG: To be determined.
NC: The One Big Beautiful Bill made changes to the income-based repayment plan. Can you give people a heads up or just explain what they need to think about or keep in mind or look for if they have an IBR?
JG: Yeah, so if you have an IBR and you had a loan before July 1st, 2014, it's categorized as an old IBR, then your monthly payments will pretty much stay the same. You’ll stay under that plan. If you have loans after, between July 1st and 2014 and July 1st, 2026, you'll be in this kind of new IBR category and you'll be eligible for cancellation after 20 years of qualifying repayments. There's just going to be some minor changes there. But if you are a borrower after, this is where the big piece is going to come into play. The IBR will go away for that group. They're putting into place a system called the Repayment Assistance Plan, and it will take longer to qualify for forgiveness. And there's a chance that it's going to be much higher for some income levels for repayment.
LO: We understand that going into effect also July 1, 2026, new rules that will restrict student loan forgiveness if people engage in activities that, quote, have a substantial illegal purpose. Just what does that mean?
JG: So this is part of the Trump administration's goal to tamp down on immigration or illegal immigration and other issues that the administration has deemed a priority and wants to battle. So they released some rules around this. And so what they're saying is they're trying not to subsidize nonprofit organizations that they view as harboring immigrants who are undocumented, or nonprofits who perform certain procedures that are tied to biological sex. So this has to do with immigration, and this has to do with trans procedures.
NC: A provision that made forgiveness tax free is expiring at the end of 2025. Can you tell us about why some may have to report what was forgiven as canceled debt on their tax return, while others may receive tax protection?
JG: Yeah, with these income-driven repayment changes, so IBR fits under that kind of big umbrella of income-based repayment plans. What essentially is happening is as they're phasing those out, they have not renewed rules that make those tax free. So those were qualified for tax-free exemptions. So this could be a massive bill for taxpayers and Democratic lawmakers and consumer protection groups are calling for changes. One consumer protection agency that I read said a single borrower earning $80,000 could pay an additional $2,600 in taxes on average for every $10,000 in additional debt canceled. So it's a lot. It's a big, big deal for borrowers on these plans.
LO: It sounds like borrowers should really be familiar with some of the dates coming up in the event they need to take action. In addition to studentaid.org, ed.gov, are there any other resources you can recommend to really help families review all of these changes and this information?
JG: Yeah, so financial planners, if they're able to, tax folks, if you're going to college, I would talk to your high school counselors. I would talk to the financial aid offices at colleges and universities to really understand what this is going to cost you in the long run. I think I mentioned College Ready AZ is a nonprofit there in your state and collegereadyaz.com is where you can find them and they can help you with some of the FAFSA changes and really with the financial planning piece.
NC: There have been many ideas to address the nation's huge student loan programs, such as delaying repayment for a later time in an individual's life when they can better afford the loans, encouraging employers to provide more programs in order to work off debt by committing to work at a company or in a sector for a certain length of time after graduation. What have you heard about what ideas are the most promising?
JG: Outside of full-on cancellation or cancellation of partial pieces, I mean, anything that makes it easier on a borrower is potentially a good thing is what I hear. And we're talking about millions of Americans with over $40,000 in college debt. So it's a, you know, that's a car for so many and it's even harder if you didn't finish college. So, you know, these incentive programs that you mentioned from employers are ones that I've heard graduates really like and they really feel like that's something where it's attractive to them. So, you know, that's just one piece, I think, that could be helpful for graduates.
LO: And then there have been reports that the administration, this is talking about Treasury and Department of Education, that the administration has been considering the sale of federal student debt to the private sector. What would be the impact should that happen?
JG: And the answer is complicated because we don't know what private investors would do with that debt. I think the key questions here are, do borrowers still have access to income-based repayment plans? Are there still legal guarantees that students who are defrauded by schools can get their loans forgiven? I just don't know what would happen here unless it does happen and then those private investors would start saying, "Hey, this is how we're handling this."
LO: And of course we should say this is an idea that has been floated. We don't know if it will actually happen.
JG: Right. This is just an idea, but there are a lot of consequences that could be around it. And I mean, even that sale of that debt would have to come at a profit to taxpayers. So it's just that it comes with far too many question marks for me to be able to answer here.
LO: Well, Matt Barnum with Chalk Beat Ideas, I was hoping you could also chime in on this. Along with the cuts to the DOE, what is the department's capacity to administer now these Educational Choice for Children's Act programs slated for 2027? Undoubtedly there will be a lot of coordination and communication needed with the states.
MB: So actually, the department does not play a role in administering it, and that was designed that way by its crafters, in part because they don't want the-- they don't like the Education Department, and they don't want the Education Department to attach various educational regulations on the legislation. So it's actually being administered by Treasury and the IRS, and there are rules coming out for that. Now, just because it's being administered by another department doesn't mean that there won't be any sort of rules. And some school choice supporters are a little nervous about what happens when a Democratic administration comes in and has to administer it. So it will be outside of Education, and we will see what the rules from the Trump administration puts out on this relatively soon.
NC: To Matt and Jason, here's a question we would like to hear both of your thoughts about. For parents and grandparents who can afford to save for their children's or grandchildren's college education, there are tax-advantaged programs to consider, like the 529 plans in Arizona, AZ529. How effective are these plans? Do they reduce the risk or reliance on student loans?
JG: I can take that first. What experts say is these are typically pretty great plans. When Colorado put into place a program some years back that they placed a small amount into account for families of newborns, they found that parents did end up contributing. And experts say a good rule is to make these automatic deductions for your bank. But whether it's going to reduce a reliance on student loans, that's tough to say. It's going to depend on how much parents can put into these college saving plans. It's really just going to be dependent on your income. And because, like I said, college is expensive. College is—you know, when we're talking about $40,000 in debt, that's a lot of money there. So I'd say it's going to probably not be enough to pay for college for most, but it could pay for some expenses.
NC: Plus, how much will it be when your child is ready to go? Let's say you start when they're very young. What's it going to be, you know, five, 10, 18 years after you start, the cost of an education?
JG: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, if we continue on the trends that we have with tuition prices, it's going to be rather costly.
LO: Well, that was my next question about tuition. Is there anything you see on the horizon that might level off or even reduce some of these tuitions that have gone up so high over the past decade or so?
JG: You know, it's dependent on state-by-state. I can tell you in Colorado, we have looked at tax rebate programs for families who are sending their students, their kids to college. So that has helped with affordability. But overall, tuition prices, I mean, you know, that's—it just depends on the economy and whether we go into some kind of recession, you know, and the pressures that are put on colleges. So it's hard to say, but states are trying. There's more federal money available to students if they fill out the FAFSA. You know, a lot of the folks that I talk to say, you know what, it's a full-time job for those high school students, and you should find ways to do everything you can to offset those costs. So it's a lot of work.
MB: I would just chime in and emphasize that there is a difference between the tuition sticker price and the net tuition that students pay. And actually, those are increasingly disconnected. We've seen the sticker price go up on very linearly, you know, for many decades now. But the actual net tuition that students pay has been flat for almost two decades, according to data from the college board, and that's in-state public schools, two-year schools, and private four-year schools. And that surprises a lot of people because of the sticker prices just keep going up. But we've seen an increase in grant aid and scholarship aid that have, to a large extent, offset the increases. Now, that's not to say that college is cheap, especially when we're talking about four years, especially when we're talking about privates, and especially when we consider the full cost of attendance, which is both the opportunity cost and, you know, room and board and other expenses. But it has been an interesting and I think underappreciated fact that real tuition costs have actually not been going up for some time now.
LO: Very interesting.
NC: Thank you, Matt. Can I just repeat what you're saying, so I'm making sure I'm understanding? So you're saying even though the overall cost looks like tuition has gone up significantly, but the net amount people are paying has remained linear because of the additional scholarships and grants that are being applied to that individual person's tuition. Is that correct?
MB: The net amount that they're paying, that the family is paying or the student is paying, has been basically flat for about two decades, according to data compiled by the college board, even as the listed price has been going up at an almost linear rate. So the discount is also going up, or the grant aid is also going up. That's correct.
NC: I didn’t know that.
JG: And it's going to depend as well on how well families can access some of these things and how well students can connect to these things. So it is really important for students to stay informed to fill out the FAFSA, which opens up all of these pieces of institutional aid and state-based aid that are going to help them attend college. And that does not happen among all students. I mean, we have a FAFSA completion rate in Arizona, that’s pretty low compared to the rest of the country. So when you're not filling those things out, when you're not filling out that FAFSA, it does mean that you are going to inevitably pay much more than those students who are filling out their financial aid and being able to really connect to some of those grant resources. So when I say it remains a full-time job to do this kind of work to get to college, that's what I mean. And there are ways to offset that, like Matt said, but it takes some work.
LO: And then connecting the dots a little further, beyond education, with AI reshaping the job market and many college grads struggling to land that first job. Matt and Jason, could you both share what advice you would give parents and students trying to navigate today's education landscape?
MB: Yeah, that's a tricky one. I mean, honestly, my advice in terms of AI is like, don't panic. We don't really know how things are going to shake out at this point. And if you're a parent of a grade school student or even a high school student, they have time. A young career professional, someone who is graduating, maybe you can have a little bit of panic because we're in flux right now. No one knows exactly what is going to happen. But it's also not just young people. I mean, I think of myself as a mid-career professional in a job where I'm writing, and a technology that has emerged that is a really good—I mean, I would say it's okay—a really good writer, not as good as professional human writers, of course. You know, I feel like I think white-collar professionals are also worried. So I think it's hard to know how it's going to play out. And it's actually very hard to know because we don't know that. It's hard to know precisely how to prepare.
JG: Yeah, I would echo that as well. I mean, understand it, but also understand how to work without it, is what I've heard from college professors. Because it is important to understand how AI is changing the education landscape and learning and really work with it. But yeah, it's not something to panic about. There's still a lot of pieces that we don't know yet and how this is all going to change the landscape. But it's good to have a handle on what's going on with it.
LO: You talked about the move to the Labor Department because of workforce development. What happens to those students who want to go to liberal arts, or want to have higher education not necessarily result in a specific job, but just want a broad base of knowledge. Are we fundamentally changing some of the notions of education for some people?
JG: Unclear. I would say that the liberal arts and the way we've thought about that over the past 10, probably five, six years actually is when I've seen it grow the most. A lot of questions around whether or not that's going to connect to jobs. And, you know, I think college professors would say, yes, it does connect to jobs and it or college administrators rather and college leaders say, yes, this does connect to jobs and these build the critical thinking skills. So if you want to, you know, critically think about AI, you have to have the skills to be able to critically think about AI. So, I mean, there's still a lot of interest in liberal arts, doesn't mean that it's changing, but we have seen, especially since the pandemic, a more interest in a lot of the technical jobs and a lot of the career trades. So, you know, some students are finding that they only need a certificate and then can come back to college and really come back and forth. And there has been a lot of questions of whether college is needed at all. And so, you know, I think it's not so much that this maybe is going to change with Labor, with that move to [the Department of] Labor, rather, it's that colleges and universities really want to say this is the value that we can provide you and whatever path you take, whether it's a certificate two year, four year and beyond.
NC: More information and articles covering education in America can be found at chalkbeat.org. Matt Barnum, editor and columnist for Chalkbeat Ideas and Jason Gonzalez, higher education and legislative matters reporter for Chalkbeat Colorado. Thank you so much for joining us for Navigating Our Financial Times.
MB: Thanks for having us.
JG: Yeah, thank you.
